Comments on: Natural wines… a perfect storm of social change for the wine world http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/ Ideas on technology, brands, wine and human behavior Mon, 05 Mar 2012 22:31:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: awaldstein http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-824 awaldstein Wed, 12 Jan 2011 02:46:09 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-824 Thanks much for your comment Tom.<br><br>I will check out your site and also see if I can find a bottle of your wine to taste.<br><br>The question of a natural approach to winemaking on one hand and the very real issues around how to brand and market that approach is complex and important to discuss.<br><br>I don't feel at all that the label of Organic or Biodynamic should 'be' the brand nor the major calling card, but I do believe deeply that great wine with a unique terroir and that is produced in a natural way is the winning combination. <br><br>Taste first; approach second is certainly true. At it's core though, this is a branding and marketing opportunity that I'm just starting to think through. I do this for my clients in other areas and am finding that the need for this discussion is very much welcome in the wine world.<br><br>Thanks again for you comment.. Thanks much for your comment Tom.

I will check out your site and also see if I can find a bottle of your wine to taste.

The question of a natural approach to winemaking on one hand and the very real issues around how to brand and market that approach is complex and important to discuss.

I don't feel at all that the label of Organic or Biodynamic should 'be' the brand nor the major calling card, but I do believe deeply that great wine with a unique terroir and that is produced in a natural way is the winning combination.

Taste first; approach second is certainly true. At it's core though, this is a branding and marketing opportunity that I'm just starting to think through. I do this for my clients in other areas and am finding that the need for this discussion is very much welcome in the wine world.

Thanks again for you comment..

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By: Tom http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-823 Tom Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:51:29 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-823 Hello from Napa! Enjoyed your post and your blog comments on natural wines. We have very strict 'organic' labels here that many choose to not pursue, formally. Informally, many of the small producers like me choose to farm sustain-ably, without going the rigor and cost of getting an official 'organic' stamp. Further, in my research, many of the wines that carry an organic label are not positively differentiated in the marketplace, nor are they particularly tasty. As a producer of very high end Cabernet Sauvignon (<a href="http://www.facebook.com/doslagosvineyards" rel="nofollow">www.facebook.com/doslagosviney...</a>), we strive to reflect our very unique terroir, while farming for the highest quality possible, and using sustainable techniques. Since we have 2 lakes on our property, hence the 'dos lagos' name, we have a pretty good benchmark: don't do anything in the vineyards that will harm fish, frogs, or baby ducks in our lakes. It kind of brings it home to my mind. To see more of our operation - I have some youtube videos posted, you can get there either from my website <a href="http://www.doslagosvineyards.com" rel="nofollow">www.doslagosvineyards.com</a> or by searching in youtube. We try to share as much of our experience as possible on this joyous ride, using the web and social media tools at our disposal.<br>keep drinking wine!<br>tom Hello from Napa! Enjoyed your post and your blog comments on natural wines. We have very strict 'organic' labels here that many choose to not pursue, formally. Informally, many of the small producers like me choose to farm sustain-ably, without going the rigor and cost of getting an official 'organic' stamp. Further, in my research, many of the wines that carry an organic label are not positively differentiated in the marketplace, nor are they particularly tasty. As a producer of very high end Cabernet Sauvignon (http://www.facebook.com/doslagosviney...), we strive to reflect our very unique terroir, while farming for the highest quality possible, and using sustainable techniques. Since we have 2 lakes on our property, hence the 'dos lagos' name, we have a pretty good benchmark: don't do anything in the vineyards that will harm fish, frogs, or baby ducks in our lakes. It kind of brings it home to my mind. To see more of our operation – I have some youtube videos posted, you can get there either from my website http://www.doslagosvineyards.com or by searching in youtube. We try to share as much of our experience as possible on this joyous ride, using the web and social media tools at our disposal.
keep drinking wine!
tom

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By: awaldstein http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-822 awaldstein Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:06:16 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-822 Hi Michael, thanks for the comments<br><br>This issue of defining what is natural is something that I think will sort itself out. The broader wine consumer population wants great taste and assurances that their food and drink are from naturally grown sources. Taste first; assurances second. This only gets complex when you start to deal with what happens in the cave. In the vineyard this is somewhat straightforward.<br><br>So, I'm a believer that it can sort itself out and I'm trying to help a bit with my posts.<br><br>You hit it right on with 'collapsing the borders between producer and consumer'. That's the challenge and it can be bridged. I do this type of work with e-commerce companies and see some real upside if this can be put in use by wineries. Challenges of course there are. Considering doing some more writing and consulting in that area to lend my expertise to the wine world which I'm quite passionate about.<br><br>Thanks again. Hi Michael, thanks for the comments

This issue of defining what is natural is something that I think will sort itself out. The broader wine consumer population wants great taste and assurances that their food and drink are from naturally grown sources. Taste first; assurances second. This only gets complex when you start to deal with what happens in the cave. In the vineyard this is somewhat straightforward.

So, I'm a believer that it can sort itself out and I'm trying to help a bit with my posts.

You hit it right on with 'collapsing the borders between producer and consumer'. That's the challenge and it can be bridged. I do this type of work with e-commerce companies and see some real upside if this can be put in use by wineries. Challenges of course there are. Considering doing some more writing and consulting in that area to lend my expertise to the wine world which I'm quite passionate about.

Thanks again.

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By: Michael http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-821 Michael Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:28:45 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-821 Arnold<br><br>Great post, and with passion. It makes me smile. I am not there yet on natural wines, though. Great idea, but differing standards, control and verification leaves the door wide open for intrepretation, and by extension, manipulation. And I am afraid unless someone can take the bull by the horns, natural wines will go the way of terrior and become one of the seemingly endless wine marketing tools, which in the end do more to confuse than educate, or empower. <br><br>I am, on the other hand, solidly in your camp with the rapidly evolving social media channels. And particularly optimistic this is where we can collapse borders betweem producer and consumer to get better wine to more consumers. Can social media be the great equalizer? I sure hope so. <br>Michael Arnold

Great post, and with passion. It makes me smile. I am not there yet on natural wines, though. Great idea, but differing standards, control and verification leaves the door wide open for intrepretation, and by extension, manipulation. And I am afraid unless someone can take the bull by the horns, natural wines will go the way of terrior and become one of the seemingly endless wine marketing tools, which in the end do more to confuse than educate, or empower.

I am, on the other hand, solidly in your camp with the rapidly evolving social media channels. And particularly optimistic this is where we can collapse borders betweem producer and consumer to get better wine to more consumers. Can social media be the great equalizer? I sure hope so.
Michael

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By: Gabriella http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-1179 Gabriella Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:01:00 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-1179 Arnold, thank you very much for your kind compliment and fabulous post! To your point, the European Wine Bloggers Conference was created to bring together people of passion, creativity and motivation; whereby forming a vast international network of wine lovers who want to change the status quo in the wine industry. The wine industry is one of the few areas that hasn't changed in hundreds of year, and it hasn't been until recently, with the power of the internet, that we, as a community, are making massive strides to think and act outside the box, pushing winemakers, importers, retailers and writers alike to support quality winemaking, talent and a damn good story. Arnold, thank you very much for your kind compliment and fabulous post! To your point, the European Wine Bloggers Conference was created to bring together people of passion, creativity and motivation; whereby forming a vast international network of wine lovers who want to change the status quo in the wine industry. The wine industry is one of the few areas that hasn’t changed in hundreds of year, and it hasn’t been until recently, with the power of the internet, that we, as a community, are making massive strides to think and act outside the box, pushing winemakers, importers, retailers and writers alike to support quality winemaking, talent and a damn good story.

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By: awaldstein http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-820 awaldstein Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:49:57 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-820 Hi Gabriella<br><br>I thank you and Ryan and Robert for having the entrepreneurial spirit and gumption to pull the EWBC together.<br><br>I've had a deep passion for wine for a long time. And I've worked as a market and brand builder for my entire career, offline first and on the social web since it started. But my trip to Austria was an eyeopener. Yes for discovering Austrian wines, but moreso to find a community of interest amongst this intersections of interests. <br><br>Well done and see you in Italy next Fall! Hi Gabriella

I thank you and Ryan and Robert for having the entrepreneurial spirit and gumption to pull the EWBC together.

I've had a deep passion for wine for a long time. And I've worked as a market and brand builder for my entire career, offline first and on the social web since it started. But my trip to Austria was an eyeopener. Yes for discovering Austrian wines, but moreso to find a community of interest amongst this intersections of interests.

Well done and see you in Italy next Fall!

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By: Tweets that mention Arnold Waldstein's Blog » Natural wines…a perfect storm of social change for the wine world -- Topsy.com http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-813 Tweets that mention Arnold Waldstein's Blog » Natural wines…a perfect storm of social change for the wine world -- Topsy.com Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:44:46 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-813 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Blog de Vinos. Blog de Vinos said: RT @vinosambiz: RT @awaldstein Natural wines…a perfect storm of social change for the wine world - http://bit.ly/f8RXKq [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Blog de Vinos. Blog de Vinos said: RT @vinosambiz: RT @awaldstein Natural wines…a perfect storm of social change for the wine world – http://bit.ly/f8RXKq [...]

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By: awaldstein http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-819 awaldstein Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:29:02 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-819 Hi Wink<br><br>"The best way to create the future is to embrace it now". <br><br>That's my motto for change. And I'm really neither ignorant nor naive but willing (as most aren't) to jump in the fray and have the discussion.<br><br>To clear up a few points:<br><br>-I don't drink only natural wines but they are my preference. I'm not a fundementalist nor purist, just a natural wine populist of sorts. My cellar is stocked with really great classic wines that I purchased and relish today before I ever though of organic in food or wine;)<br><br>-I disagree that the natural wine movement is not surging. New York is at the crossroads of the world and attention here spreads. Actually there are many more natural wine shops in Paris than here. And I bet other places. I bet if someone started aggregating the list, it would be surprisingly large. <br><br>Also recent article in the NY Times I believe about a host of California artisanal and natural wineries finding their way onto the wine lists in New York because of their natural roots, unique tastes and individualistic approach to wine making.<br><br>-I don't believe in perfect, but progress. I'm not calling for a pure play organic or anything. Your anecdote about Arbois was very instructive. I'm just voicing appreciation for the dedication, the process and the result of winemakers and shops in giving attention to this approach.<br><br>I thank you for your detailed response. I've learned something and hopefully your deep knowledge and my enthusiasm will intersect and encourage others to join the discussion and taste these wines.<br><br>Hopeful that sometime we can share a glass of wine together in the future. Hi Wink

“The best way to create the future is to embrace it now”.

That's my motto for change. And I'm really neither ignorant nor naive but willing (as most aren't) to jump in the fray and have the discussion.

To clear up a few points:

-I don't drink only natural wines but they are my preference. I'm not a fundementalist nor purist, just a natural wine populist of sorts. My cellar is stocked with really great classic wines that I purchased and relish today before I ever though of organic in food or wine;)

-I disagree that the natural wine movement is not surging. New York is at the crossroads of the world and attention here spreads. Actually there are many more natural wine shops in Paris than here. And I bet other places. I bet if someone started aggregating the list, it would be surprisingly large.

Also recent article in the NY Times I believe about a host of California artisanal and natural wineries finding their way onto the wine lists in New York because of their natural roots, unique tastes and individualistic approach to wine making.

-I don't believe in perfect, but progress. I'm not calling for a pure play organic or anything. Your anecdote about Arbois was very instructive. I'm just voicing appreciation for the dedication, the process and the result of winemakers and shops in giving attention to this approach.

I thank you for your detailed response. I've learned something and hopefully your deep knowledge and my enthusiasm will intersect and encourage others to join the discussion and taste these wines.

Hopeful that sometime we can share a glass of wine together in the future.

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By: awaldstein http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-818 awaldstein Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:15:54 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-818 Hi Rowan...<br><br>-Cheaper, better, more available wines for all. I'm with you on that.<br><br>-Crowd or community sourced buying to find and support talent. Yup, Naked is living proof of this.<br><br>-End of push...I would hope so but this will be a process.<br><br>-A host of deal-a-day are cropping up all over. Some social but refined email marketing ala Groupon. Lot 18 is the local one that is gaining traction.<br><br>-Naked New York. An idea that will come to fruition sometime ;)<br> Hi Rowan…

-Cheaper, better, more available wines for all. I'm with you on that.

-Crowd or community sourced buying to find and support talent. Yup, Naked is living proof of this.

-End of push…I would hope so but this will be a process.

-A host of deal-a-day are cropping up all over. Some social but refined email marketing ala Groupon. Lot 18 is the local one that is gaining traction.

-Naked New York. An idea that will come to fruition sometime ;)

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By: awaldstein http://arnoldwaldstein.com/2011/01/natural-winesa-perfect-wave-of-disruption-some-confusion-and-unlimited-potential/comment-page-1/#comment-817 awaldstein Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:02:41 +0000 http://arnoldwaldstein.com/?p=4722#comment-817 Hi Fabio...always great to hear from you.<br><br>Glad the post was of interest. <br><br>The subject of natural wines, labeling and certification is a heated one and I'm glad to step into the fray. It's not black and white but many shades of grey.<br><br>The great news is that small vineyards like yourself are making really fine wines, opening communications with customers and hopefully finding ways to keep building your business.<br><br>It ain't easy. Doing something of value rarely is. I believe that stumbling forward into something new is working as long as the motion is forward. It's a game of inches as they say. Hi Fabio…always great to hear from you.

Glad the post was of interest.

The subject of natural wines, labeling and certification is a heated one and I'm glad to step into the fray. It's not black and white but many shades of grey.

The great news is that small vineyards like yourself are making really fine wines, opening communications with customers and hopefully finding ways to keep building your business.

It ain't easy. Doing something of value rarely is. I believe that stumbling forward into something new is working as long as the motion is forward. It's a game of inches as they say.

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